Sean & Wawa | Ep 1

Sean & Wawa Podcast: Episode 1 Transcript

[VD: In separate video screens, Sean Forbes appears on the left and Warren “Wawa” Snipe appears on the right. Sean wears dark rimmed glasses and a dark blue jacket over a black top. Behind him a poster reads: DEAF AND LOUD. Wawa wears clear-rimmed glasses, a backwards hat, and a black top with the ILY sign spelling out “Love”. Behind him a poster reads: DIP HOP: WAWA’S WORLD.]

Sean: Hello Warren.

Wawa: Hello Sean.

[Laughing]

Sean: Welcome to the first episode of our new podcast! What are we gonna call it?

Wawa: We still haven’t thought of a name!

Sean: I think we’ll call it Sean and Wawa?

Wawa: Anything’s possible, should we leave it to the people to decide?

Sean: True, true. So really, the goal with this podcast is every Monday. we’re gonna meet and chat about what’s up with us, with our community, like what’s hot right now?

Wawa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so but before we do that, we need to introduce ourselves.

Sean: Yeah!

Wawa: So can I start first?

Sean:  Yeah, the floor is yours. 

Wawa: What’s up beautiful people, it’s your boy Wawa. I’m a person who loves the entertainment world. I’m an actor, musician, rapper, you know, I do these things and I elevate. Well, we both elevate people with disabilities in the entertainment world. Yeah.

Sean: My name is Sean, I’m a rapper, musician, producer, lover of access. I’m the co-founder of DPAN, the Deaf Professional Arts Network. And since 2006, really my mission is to do

anything related with access. I just love access. I love seeing access. It always makes me excited when access is there and provided. Just like this podcast, you know? Obviously we’re talking and signing at the same time, but our goal is to make this accessible to as many audiences as possible.

Wawa: Exactly. Now you have to understand, accessibility still has room for improvement. So we’re still working on encouraging. It’s not just us, it’s many people involved with this, creating access for all. So one day, access will be everywhere.

Sean: I mean, really, since I’ve founded DPAN in 2006, I’ve seen major improvements with access. Because if you remember back in 2006, I mean, music wasn’t always accessible. There were just many things that were not really accessible. And now you’ve seen tremendous improvement. So I’m really excited about that.

Wawa: I wouldn’t be able to just walk in and it’s there. I mean, but you know, sometimes I ask

people the question, what does accessibility, total accessibility, what does it like to you? How does it feel? Are you satisfied with the accessibility that is happening today? What can we do to change it? What can we do to improve it? What do you think is missing? Innovation, technology, wow it’s just happening quickly. 

Sean: And I think one thing that our community and ourselves could learn is how to be compassionate with each other as it relates to access. Because I agree, like, I’m ready to flip out sometimes when access is not provided in the right way, or access is not provided at all. Especially when access is an afterthought. 

Wawa: Mmhmm.

Sean: There’s always room for improvement and to be the one to suggest, you know, maybe you could improve doing this. Obviously, you’re ready to go nuclear when access is not provided and people are not accommodating. That’s when it’s time to flip out. But when it’s provided and it’s there, and there’s always room for improvement, always.

Wawa: So one thing you need to understand is that we talk a lot about access, but sometimes there are some people out there who don’t really understand why you keep talking about it. So here’s a visual: There are 1.3 billion people in the world who have a disability, but only 16% have accessibility, and that’s very, very tiny. 1.3 billion people with disabilities have access, but it’s only 16% of the world.

Sean: And that’s in general, that’s not just the signing in the Deaf community. 

Wawa: Right, that’s in general. For signing, it’s a lot smaller. 

Sean: So you’re saying like braille for the blind community, having access to books, to media, to information is very limited as well. Having access to buildings for those who are in wheelchairs. So yeah, our community is a small part of this big–

Wawa: Absolutely, yeah. 

Sean: You know, the big picture. And obviously we’re very passionate about the signing, and captioning, and visual descriptions for those who are DeafBlind. Because disability is often, it’s not just one disability. There are many people who have several different disabilities. So there’s a lot to take into consideration.

Wawa: So again, what does total access look like to you? 

Sean: Yeah. 

Wawa: Yeah. It’s cool. But I gotta tell you something. Over the weekend, I was in California. 

Sean: Oh! I love visiting California. Was the weather great? 

Wawa: It was a little chilly.

Sean: Chilly?! [Laughing]

Wawa: It was weird, it was weird! It was weird. I mean, I’m like, wait, I have my t-shirts. I had my hoodie, but I had some t-shirts. I was like, my hoodie’s becoming my best friend in the state of California.

Sean: It’s funny because before, I’ve flown into LA with shorts and short sleeves for the day and I got off the airplane and I’m like whew, so cold! And I ended up buying a $60 hoodie in the airport. No, don’t do that. People, prepare. It’s easy to take off layers, but it’s not easy to add them if you don’t have them. So anyways.

Wawa: Yeah, so I was there for an expo, DeafNation Expo, and I’m hoping I pronounce this right: Pasadena?

Sean: PasaDEEna. 

Wawa: PasaDEE, E-E-N-A.

Sean: That’s where they host the Rose Bowl for NCAA football, yeah.

Wawa: Right, but it’s also the place where we were at, just walking distance away is the building where they have the auditions for America’s Got Talent.

Sean: Wow. Did you show up?! Did you audition?

Wawa: There was no one there. 

Sean: Darn. 

Wawa: But that building was there. I was like wow, it was nice. But the hotel was beautiful. That event for Expo was mind-blowing. 

Sean: It looked amazing. It was packed!

Wawa: Oh my gosh, it was so much fun. It was PACKED. I mean, it was packed. And it was really cool to see so many people coming out, giving support for the Deaf ecosystem. You know, mingling with old friends, new friends, sometimes first-time people coming in, learning, picking up signs and things. And several celebrities popped up. I’m talking about Deaf, Hard of Hearing, and Coda celebrities popped up.

Sean: Like who?

Wawa: Well, we had several people. I mean, yeah, Justin Loncar who’s Some Deaf Guy. 

Sean: Some Deaf Guy, yeah. 

Wawa: Awesome comedian. Then you had Vich, the Vich Family. 

Sean: The Vich Family, yeah. 

Wawa: And so they were there. And it was several more who popped up, they didn’t have booths or anything. 

Sean: I saw Shaheem was there.

Wawa: Yeah, Shaheem was there.

Sean: Cool!

Wawa: So he came with his family. Beautiful family, I have to say. Beautiful family.  So I had a good time just talking, meeting with other people. So to see that many people just coming in, coming out, staying, talking, meeting, and really expressing how glad they were to be there. I mean, it was a bunch of happy people. I did a performance there, a meet and greet, pictures, I was doing pictures and meeting and talking like all day. I was worn out, but to see the faces, the happy

people, that really inspired me. Yeah, so it was great. It was wonderful.

Sean: I love, the one thing I really love about DeafNation is it really brings a variety of people. Just so many different Deaf businesses, Deaf entertainers, just a variety that you would never see at any other expo or event. It’s really unique.

Wawa: Yeah, I think it’s cool because oftentimes in the Deaf community they’re kind of spread out. So they meet a little bit here and there, but for something for a big event, they just come out and they’re like, I haven’t seen you in a year!  And they live like, what? 15, 20 minutes apart from each other, something like that?

Sean: Right.

Wawa: And they finally see each other. So it’s busy, it’s lives, it’s business. So coming to an event, an expo like this it’s like, ahh. Like family time, you know what I mean?

Sean: Right, right.

Wawa: So it’s good. It’s worth it. But it was good. 

Sean: I’m sure people show up early, stay there all day, and try to get free stuff, right?

Wawa: I got one! [Laughing] I got one.

Sean: You got one person asking for free stuff?

Wawa: No, I got one free thing! 

Sean: Oh YOU got free stuff. 

Wawa: So I was like, oh yeah! So that was good. So I gave it to my queen. It was specifically for her anyway! But it was good. 

Sean: How many songs did you perform? 

Wawa: I did four songs.

Sean: Okay.

Wawa: One was the cover song, the rest were original. And then I was explaining about a festival that I’m planning to host next year in Washington, DC. But it was great. And wow. This is the last one for the summer and then they go back and start again in the fall. So you guys, check for DeafNation Expo, I highly encourage you to go.

Sean: You’ll be there?

Wawa: For the fall? I have one so far.

Sean: Cool. 

Wawa: We’ll see.

Sean: Awesome. Yeah. Really, I wanted to talk about the NFL Draft that I went to recently. 

Wawa: That’s right, you went!

Sean: They hosted it in Detroit. Bro. So cool. So cool. I never in a million years thought that I would be anxious to go to an NFL Draft experience. Before I went, I was looking at research, the history of it. Really back in the day, they used to host it all the time in New York City. It wasn’t a big event. The NFL, or college players who were going into the draft would go to the event. But this time, it was insane. It took over the whole downtown of Detroit, right in the heart of downtown Detroit. And, you know, leading up to the event, there were several Deaf people in the Detroit community who were pinging me, asking me, how can I go to the NFL Draft? How can I experience that? And for me, I was like uhh, I don’t know. “But you have NFL contacts?” But I’m like…

Wawa: I heard it was a record. 

Sean: Just because I went to the Super Bowl doesn’t mean I personally have NFL contacts! Yes, yes, it was a record. So each day, I believe it was about 250, 275,000 people that were there.

Wawa: Okay, so hold on, let’s go back. For some people who don’t follow the NFL, so the draft is like, how many days?

Sean: Three days.

Wawa: Three days.

Sean: Three days, so the first round was Thursday night.

Wawa: Right.

Sean: And then the second round was on Friday night. And the third round on Saturday. Right. But it seems to me like it still continues after. Like the fourth round, fifth round. But the big rounds are in the beginning. 

Wawa: The beginning, yeah.

Sean: And then after that, you know, they’re still picking. But really it was crazy because I really

wanted to go, but I wasn’t sure if access was provided. I tried to do some research. It said access is provided, but what does that mean? You know, as a Deaf person, I’m questioning that, I always have that. Like, I don’t want to waste my time showing up, getting into it with people, seeing where it is, how it’s provided. So what happened was on Thursday night, I was considering going at the last minute and they said, do not come to Detroit. It’s full. You won’t be able to get in. So that was my answer on Thursday night. So it so happened that several Deaf people were there and I was on social media. My whole social media was overtaken with the NFL Draft.

Wawa: It took over!

Sean: Right, I mean just, Detroit was crazy. And I saw one friend of mine post a video saying, “I’m here at the NFL Draft!” And he was showing the event, and I saw a group of Deaf people there, and I saw the interpreter. So I was like, I know that interpreter, she’s a good friend of mine. So the next morning I texted her, I said what’s up with the access at the NFL? She said it was very last minute and asked me if I was interested in going. I’m like, yes! So I texted my boss (my wife), and I asked her, can I go to the draft tonight? “Yeah, go!” So I went with a small group of friends and it was amazing to be able to just stand there and see the fans of each team.

Wawa: Oh, insane.

Sean: It was insane! I mean, some of these fans were dressed to the nines. Really. It was over the top in a lot of ways.

Wawa: Hardcore fans. 

Sean: Oh yeah. And then behind us, we were in the VIP area. The interpreter was standing right there. So the interpreter would be like, hey everyone, hey! Right now there’s a trade happening between this team and that team. And for me, if I was at home watching it on TV, it would have been delayed. I probably wouldn’t have caught certain things that I would have caught during a live, you know, NFL Draft experience. So, yeah, the interesting thing is after it was done, they asked me, what do you think? Do you think the Deaf community would want to go to future NFL Draft experiences? I’m like, yes!

Wawa: I would. 

Sean: If they knew that the draft provided access and there was a way to sign up for it or something, because the experience itself was free.

Wawa: Okay.

Sean: I didn’t have to pay to get in, but I suspect that the teams who were there, not the teams, but the fans of those specific teams, paid to go in the VIP area. So next year is Green Bay. Deaf community, if you guys are interested in going to the NFL Draft, we’ve got to figure out how to do that. How to really experience that.

Wawa: Interesting.

Sean: This really shows that the Deaf community is really invested in the NFL. 

Wawa: Oh yeah. 

Sean: They really want to go to the game, they want to be a part of it. Not just the last game of the year, the Super Bowl, but really the whole season. Deaf people want to go to the games. They want to experience it like a hearing person experiences it. So for me, going as just an attendee and to see access like that. No captions, but just to be able to chat with friends, to see other Deaf people who are fans. There was a big group of Deaf people who were Philadelphia Eagles fans.

Wawa: Let’s go!

Sean: That’s your team. So of course I’m thinking, Wawa, Philadelphia Eagles.

Wawa: Hardcore!

Sean: And like when their draft came up, they went to sit with their Philadelphia Eagles compadres and they were on TV. They were cheering and rooting for the Eagles, so it’s fun. I tried to go up when the Detroit Lions were picked, but as you can imagine it was packed in that area. I mean, you could see people were packed in, shoulder to shoulder. So I tried to get in there with another friend, the other friend was like, come on come on, let’s go, let’s go! So we went and the security guard was like, you can’t enter. We were like ohh, we’re Deaf, we tried to pull the Deaf card. He’s like no. No, can’t get in. So my friend was like, let’s go another way. So we tried to go around. And right as we went around, Barry Sanders and the mayor of Detroit walked out. So it was like, it’s Barry Sanders right there in the flesh. I’m like, woo! Then that security guard showed up. “I told you guys to go back! You can’t go in this area.” So we had no choice, we walked back to our seats, we didn’t want any drama. 

Wawa: Sounds like he followed you. 

Sean: Yeah, yeah, he followed us. Like, I see them, they’re trying to get in.

[Laughter]

Wawa: What a rich experience. 

Sean: It was a really great experience.

Wawa: So did you say how many people attended?

Sean: I think altogether the whole weekend it was about 700,000 people who attended. And it beat the record. The previous record was Nashville with 600,000 attendees. So it’s really exciting.

Wawa: Think it will increase every NFL draft?

Sean: It’ll be interesting because Green Bay is a much smaller town. It’s a much smaller town than Detroit. So we’ll see. We’ll see next year what that brings, how they host it, what it looks like. But it was a really cool experience for Detroit. And I’m excited for what’s to come because now they’re talking about the possibility of hosting the NBA All-Star Game here in Detroit, and hosting many different events here in Detroit. So I’ve been talking with several interpreters about how can we amplify efforts to really make sure the Deaf community knows about access being provided? Because I started to realize that the interpreters in a lot of ways hold the key.

Wawa: True, they do help a lot.

Sean: They hold the key. It’s interesting because that specific experience, like the Deaf community’s asking me, and I’m trying to ask people I know, like, do you know anything about access for the NFL Draft? “No, maybe you should contact this person.” I’ll contact this person. “No, I don’t know much.” I’m like, okay, we seem to have a problem here. How do we resolve letting the Deaf community know about access? I feel like it’s a repetitive topic.

Wawa: No it’s okay, it’s good to know and sometimes people don’t get it the first time. Maybe the second, third, fourth time, even if it’s the same message. Finally it pops in, now I get it, okay, fine. But that’s really good, I appreciate it. But also, for something at that magnitude, we need to be there early, to make sure to be on time, you know? But it’s nice that you had interpreters

that was there, so that’s really great.

Sean: Both of the interpreters were great. I mean, I would not have…interpreters can make or break the experience.

Wawa: That’s true!

Sean: You know, if you show up and you’re not familiar with the NFL language, if you’re not familiar with how to sign what the team’s sign names are. So that brings me to our next topic, interpreter appreciation. So last week was National Interpreter Appreciation Day. Of course that means interpreters in general, you know, there are many interpreters for many different language.

Wawa: True.

Sean: You know, especially in hospitals and stuff like that. But for us, of course we cherish our

Deaf and hearing sign language interpreters.  So I made a quick video. and everybody who shared that video, I really appreciate you guys. Because interpreters are a big part of the bridge between the Deaf and the hearing world. So my appreciation is tremendous.

Wawa: Yeah.

Sean: So I’m curious to ask you if you have any interpreter appreciation stories you want to share.

Wawa: Well, I have a couple. I think when I first picked up learning to sign in college– Sorry if I’m doing this, this coffee, I’m like [coughing]! Anyways.

[Sean laughing]

Wawa: So, but I think the first time, when I was learning to sign. And I arrived to college, I was taking classes and I remember seeing a teacher and I also remember seeing one person come out. The teacher was signing and I was learning, and then this person was voicing and I’m like, are you a translator? “No, I’m an interpreter.” What’s that? I didn’t know what it was. So it goes back and forth and I saw it, I was able to fully understand. Wow, okay, okay.

Sean: And how old are you at this point?

Wawa: I was 17 when that happened. 

Sean: 17. So you didn’t really learn sign language until you were 17?

Wawa: Yeah. Right.

Sean: Wow. 

Wawa: So that was, I was like, wow. But appreciation? Wow I have so many. I have so many, I think one was when…how do I say this? It was a really terrible situation, but that person happened to be there. And I wasn’t involved, but I just happened to be there. And I remember the Deaf person, it was a car accident that happened. And I saw that the person was Deaf because I witnessed it. But somehow people were getting mad at the person who was Deaf in the car, thinking it was her fault. Really it was the other person’s fault. So she couldn’t communicate, she was trying to figure out what was going on and people were just blasting her out. So a guy just came running and said hold on, she’s Deaf. Let me try to interpret and help us all understand. I mean, he didn’t have to. He just came running like a superhero arriving to protect her and interpret for her and they were able to solve the issue. So seeing that, that shows someone cares and really made the effort. To take it on and be like, I’m an interpreter, I’m here to help you out. That was good, I mean I was like wow about that. But my most funniest one was when I was in Aspen, Colorado. I was a recruiter for the college that I graduated from. I was a recruiter, and I remember my first time in Aspen, very nice, very fancy. Like wow, my first time was watching rugby. So I’d never seen it, that was my first time. And I remember cringing at the fact that people were getting their faces stepped on, bodies thrown around without the helmets. I said, this is football? This is not football. Went into a McDonald’s, I remember the long line. And so it was my turn, and the woman was speaking so fast. So fast that I had to ask her several times to repeat what she was saying.

Sean: Like this.

Wawa: Yeah, and so she was starting, yeah, I mean really fast. So she started getting frustrated.

[Laughing]

Wawa: She started getting frustrated. I was like, okay, so get me a pen and paper and I will write it down. I’m using my voice and I’m signing, but all of a sudden, boom, someone comes up saying they’ll interpret for me. I’m like oh, of all places?

Sean: Just popped up out of nowhere?

Wawa: Just popped up! It was almost like you had that…

Sean: Why can’t we have that teleportation like…

Wawa: Help button? [Laughing]

Sean: The interpreter bat signal projecting!

Wawa: Project it, that! 

Sean: And they just pop in! 

Wawa: So, I mean, yeah it was like, my distress was REAL. Struggling through and boom, I’ll interpret for you. Whoa! So that girl, the lady who worked there she was like, why can’t he understand me? The interpreter’s like, he’s Deaf. “Oh, I’m so sorry.” I said don’t be sorry, I”m happy that I’m Deaf. But thank you for the interpreting. And then she connected me to the community there. I was like, wow. I didn’t know anyone in Aspen, she connected me to them. It was nice, man. So that was nice.

Sean: That! It’s always beautiful when interpreters really have the heart for their profession. 

Wawa: Mmhmm.

Sean: They’re really invested. Because as an interpreter, there’s so many situations I can think of where I just appreciate interpreters so much because they can make or break the experience. They can make or break the job interview. They can make or break your doctor’s appointment, like how severe is the situation? So, you know, my heart really goes out to those interpreters who really make the effort. And it’s not just a job.

Wawa: It’s not. It’s really not.

Sean: You’re really developing relationships between people who may not know sign language. I have to say that, you know, personally, my number one favorite person that’s really helped me tremendously and really opened a lot of doors for me is Amber Galloway. In my entire profession, I’ve had many amazing interpreters, and you all know who you are.

Wawa: For sure.

Sean: And I value and appreciate many of you so much. But for Amber, she’s a special one, especially because of the music portion of it. As a person that’s largely invested in music, who is

passionate about music, music access, and being in the music world.

Wawa: ASL Music Camp. 

Sean: ASL Music Camp and developing more opportunities for Deaf and Hard of Hearing people to get involved with music. I mean, as someone who started in 2006, trying to find a way to break through, to provide the access for our community and to try to find, you know, like-minded people who feel the same. Because I’ve seen it all. I’ve seen people who sign music for their own purposes and intents, rather than providing access to the community. They’re like, look at me, I’m hot. I can do this. Or the interpreters who provide access and clearly you can tell that they’re not fans of that music. So Amber is someone that I feel always tries to match the music with the Deaf interpreter or the interpreter, to try to match to provide the experience. Because I’ve been to several festivals where she works at and I’m always mind-blown by the experience itself and to see the person on that platform.

Wawa: It’s amazing.

Sean: Signing, looking who’s feeding them, how they’re getting that experience. Really a tremendous effort goes into providing this access. And it’s not just music.

Wawa: It’s not easy.

Sean: Prep. The prep work to provide access.

Wawa: It’s insane. 

Sean: Because like recently I was talking about the NFL Draft. Like you need to know like who the teams are, what their mascot is, you know, where they’re based. I mean, it’s like Green Bay. Where is Green Bay? It’s in Wisconsin. I mean, I know that, but generally, you know, some Deaf people might wonder, where’s Green Bay located? So as an interpreter, you need to do as much homework as possible. So when you’re providing access for any performer, you really have to do your homework. 

Wawa: They do a lot of research. They do a lot. So they provide it, they care, they’re in there. So speaking of Amber, she puts her soul in her work.

Sean: She really does.

Wawa: She cares. That’s why I love her. She’s also the person who helped us in the Super Bowl, you know.

Sean: Yes. I mean, talk about that. Because to me, when I got the call to go to the Super Bowl, I mean, I admit my first thought was, oh my gosh like, this is huge. The whole community is going to be watching me.

[Wawa laughs]

Sean: I admit that I haven’t really signed other people’s songs. I mean, I do it in the car all the time. I’ll sign to myself, but on a platform like that? I mean, number one, it’s an honor to be asked to go to the Super Bowl to stand up and to represent our community. But at the same time, whew, the work starts now to prep for it.

Wawa: We prepped for a month. 

Sean: We prepped for a month. I remember when we got the call I was like okay wow, the work starts now. I remember I put together a video, the DPAN team captioned it and made sure it was perfect. I picked all of the best verses and I feel I was 90% right. There were some surprises that happened.

Wawa: We worked it, because we didn’t know which songs they were planning to put out. 

Sean: Right.

Wawa: The artists didn’t put out anything. So I remember Amber and you said, just get the top 10 songs the artists do and just practice them all. And we met, we met like twice a week, the whole time for like two hours, just practicing, yeah. 

Sean: Yeah! It was fun. 

Wawa: So by the time we got there, we were listening to the music like oh, we know this, we know this, oh we don’t know this, you take this, fine, you take this, fine. Perfect. It was fun. 

Sean: It’s like, I remember being in the car on the way to the Super Bowl. We would always play music and sign. I remember we were signing Tupac, we were signing everything that was West

Coast gangster rap because we knew that the whole event was about that.

Wawa: So Amber was a very, very exceptional person who really made this access happen. Because when we were there at the Super Bowl, everything was so top secret. They wasn’t giving out anything, so you couldn’t. So we would ask for music, stuff like that and we struggled with that. There were a few things newly written just for the Super Bowl. 

Sean: Right.

Wawa: We didn’t know that. Amber was like, I got you. Spoke to other people’s camp, the artist’s camp. I mean, we just got it and started practicing.

Sean: She was key for that because we arrived at the Super Bowl and we didn’t know what the setlist was. We watched the first performance and marked it down. I remember it was like okay, they’re playing that song. And then 50 Cent showed up as a surprise.

Wawa: Yeah he was the guest star, right. 

Sean: I was like ohh! In Da Club.

♪ Go, go, go, go ♪

♪ Go shorty, it’s your birthday ♪

[Laughing]

Wawa: So Kendrick Lamar. 

Sean: The first day, yeah, Kendrick Lamar. That was tough.

Wawa: He wrote one verse that was specifically for the Super Bowl. So we didn’t know. We were like oh, so we asked. 

Sean: And I think all of us, Amber herself had a hard time because she was rapping at supersonic speed. He was SO FAST. 

Wawa: Yeah!

Sean: So it was like we had no idea what he’s saying.

Wawa: Like another language. 

Sean: Luckily Amber, with her experience working at many different festivals, working with many different teams, she actually spotted somebody from Kendrick Lamar’s camp and went up to them. And the other person was like, what are you doing here? And she was like, I’m here with the deaf rappers. They’re like yeah I heard about that! Did you get our lyrics and everything? And Amber responded, no. 

[Laughing]

Sean: So she got everything instantly. Without her involvement, without her being there, I don’t think that we would have had as much support as we could have had without her. So her…

Wawa: Right, it was amazing. 

Sean: You know how I feel about her. 

Wawa: So that’s why, you know, we love this woman. She goes– As I said before, she puts her soul into it. Her soul is really into it. So there are a lot of other interpreters that do that same thing. And just providing because they care. They know, they understand. So I’m really grateful, you know, not just nationally but for the world. Other interpreters from other countries, whoo! 

Sean: Oh yeah!

Wawa: Wow. 

Sean: Talk about our ladies from Barbados.

Wawa: Our queens from the Barbados! Nikki Champagne! Nikki Harris and Tracy Tyler. Tracy’s from Scotland.

Sean: Yep, right.

Wawa: Scotland, while Nikki’s from the UK. So I remember–

Sean: And they both sign BSL.

Wawa: BSL. 

Sean: They were our interpreters too. 

Wawa: Yeah!!

Sean: In addition to Bonnie. 

Wawa: Bonnie from Barbados. So she signed ASL.

Sean: From Barbados and signs ASL. 

Wawa: Yeah. 

Sean: But she wasn’t with us all the time, so sometimes we had BSL interpreters.

Wawa: But they made sure we were able to lip read to understand them while we saw BSL. So we were picking up on BSL the whole time too!

Sean: Right.

Wawa: So they…you see them put themselves at work. I mean, here you go, ASL and BSL. And they’re interpreters, they were like, okay, we have to figure out how we make sure there’s access for everybody. And they did. They were incredible. And they were a lot of fun to party with bro.

[Sean laughs]

Wawa: Oh I enjoyed talking with them. 

Sean: You had a great time with them. But that really shows you, because they were there to see, you know, we as a group were there to see how we can help improve the Deaf community in Barbados. Improve access, improve experiences for the community, and to share knowledge with the community. And it was really fascinating because interpreters themselves are really something. I mean, Bonnie herself, I think she’s one of, if not two interpreters…

Wawa: Two certified interpreters in the whole country.

Sean: Two on the whole island of Barbados. Two. So I remember Bonnie saying, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night, a Deaf Barbadian has been arrested, he’s in jail, or a Deaf person’s in the hospital and needs access.

Wawa: Doctors appointments, I mean yeah, she was doing that when we were there. We were there and sometimes she’d be like, I’ve got to step out. I have to help this person. I mean, but everyone knew who she was. The whole country knew who she was, and it’s nice because she got the president, or the prime minister?

Sean: I saw that.

Wawa: She got an award directly.

Sean: Good for her. Much deserved.

Wawa: And it was like the whole country was celebrating her. Yeah. And so she was representing her country. Then you have Nikki and Tracy just representing the UK with the other groups. So we had the US, UK, and Barbados getting together to help the community to stick together.

Sean: It was beautiful.

Wawa: Oh it was beautiful. So… What would it be like? What would it look like without these interpreters, you know? I think it would be really tough.

Sean: When we first went there, because we went to Barbados twice. First time for research, to meet people, to see and visualize the whole project. Interpreters were crucial. Crucial in so many different ways because, like, I remember meeting the steelpan band. 

Wawa: Yeah, from BCC?

Sean: It was really hard because Barbadians, even though they speak English, they have a strong accent. You know, they have a strong accent. So you look at the BSL interpreter, you look at Bonnie, you know, it’s like you had multiple forms of access. To see the body language, to see how to best learn from what was going on and to develop the song, to develop the idea of how we can make music to uplift and elevate the Barbados community. And it was crucial with the interpreters.

Wawa:  I love the fact of how willing everyone was. They were really helping each other out. If there was a misunderstanding or not sure if they understood, people just went out of their way. The interpreters were there to explain and expand it. The hearing people from BCC, Barbados Community College. The music, the music people were just like gesturing everything. So it was like the partnership was there. We all became a family. We were there for a short time, but we became really tight. So that was the first time. The second time, it was like coming back home. Yeah let’s go, let’s go! We worked hard, so, we miss Barbados.

Sean: We miss Barbados.

Wawa: Our interpreters who helped out. 

Sean: Ruth, Tracy, Nikki. 

Wawa: Stephen. 

Sean: All of them. All of them. 

Wawa: It was a great team. 

Sean: Without the interpreters, the experience would have been totally different for sure.

Wawa: I believe so. So thank you to all of the interpreters, you know who you are, around the world. We can’t do this without you. We’re grateful.

Sean: I agree 100%. I’m curious, you mentioned Kendrick Lamar recently. Have you been following the beef between him and Drake?

Wawa: Honestly, with other people who I’ve collaborated with, songs with, my team, great team.

Sean: Yeah.

Wawa: So they’ve been posting and going back and forth and I’m like uh…so I think I’m lost, I’m drowning.

Sean: Me too!

Wawa: But this beef is insane! It’s insane. At first I was like, why are we having this beef? Then I was like oh, okay. But sometimes beefs are created just for a publicity stunt. 

Sean: Bingo. So who do you think is dropping a new record? 

Wawa: Oh my gosh. 

Sean: Do you think it’s Kendrick or is Drake dropping another one? I think it’s both of them!

Wawa: I think both of them are. It’s just to get that quick attention from the back and forth. Then when they drop it, there you go. Smart move, but sometimes it can be dangerous for some people. Because if you remember the old times, you used to have the East Coast and West Coast War doing a rap battle.

Sean: Right. 

Wawa: That was tense, I remember, so. 

Sean: It’s interesting because you’re mentioning Tupac and Biggie.

Wawa: Yeah.

Sean: And I’ve followed it ever since, I’ve always been a big fan of rap, big fan of Biggie, big fan of Tupac.

Wawa: Same.

Sean: They were actually friends.

Wawa: Yes, they were.

Sean: They were friends, and then the whole rivalry was created.

Wawa: It got wild. 

Sean: It’s something in rap that has always been around. And it’s competitive. And I admit that I haven’t really been following. I see the news. I see some of the same people you’re talking about posting things like ohh, he just responded six minutes later. To me, I’m like, I find it very far-fetched that someone can make a rap beat and then respond instantly six minutes later.

Wawa: That’s fast.

Sean: Like that. Some things I think were a little…

Wawa: Planned?

Sean: Too personal for two grown men to be beefing about, especially family. I think families should be thrown out, you should never discuss other people’s families. The rap beef should be strictly between the two of them. 

Wawa: The two of them, that’s it. But I find myself thinking, do we really have time for this? 

[Sean laughs]

Wawa: You know me, I’m positive. I like to just go on. If I have something against you, that’s between you and I, but I don’t have to follow up or try to get revenge. I’m not a revengeful person. I don’t do that. I just, I have things to do. I have a life. You have your life, keep going. But at the same time, when you see this, you see how fast they responded going back and forth. It makes me think, you must have planned this.

Sean: I agree.

Wawa: But okay. But people out there, some people…

Sean: Yeah they enjoy it.

Wawa: They just love it. You know, the drama, the ooh, the ahh, the sounds, whoa, the creativity, the wordplay, wow.

Sean: That’s the thing, I tried to hop on and see what the issue was. I tried to experience the song. Really, honestly, Wawa, I wish somebody could sign for Drake… 

Wawa: Same here.

Sean: And somebody could sign for Kendrick. I think if somebody could provide that access, I think it would be fascinating.

Wawa: Ooh, it would be. It would be. 

Sean: Yeah, it’s definitely a challenge because I mean, they’re rapping hard too and they’re doing a lot of interesting wordplay too. But I tried to follow it. I tried to pull up the lyrics, pull up the music and I just get lost instantly.

Wawa: Yeah, I got lost. But I think that’s another story for another time because I’m curious what everyone thinks about that kind of thing. But for this…

Sean: Maybe they would like to see two Deaf rappers have beef?

Wawa: Yeah, that’d be something to talk about. 

Sean: Yeah, just not me and you.

Wawa: Nope. I have no time for that.

Sean: I love you too much to ever do that. And I can’t think of any Deaf rapper I would want to have beef with, because I would rather elevate our Deaf music community.

Wawa: We have no time for that craziness.

Sean: Than to create separation.

Wawa: Right, we have no time for that craziness. I mean, we should be going up, not down. We should be going forward, not backwards. But you know, I’m curious with you out there. Something you want to talk about, you have a question for us, drop it in the comments. Just let us know, we can come up with something. But we would love to hear from you and what topics you want us to talk about. Now mind you, we’re not gonna follow every topic that you put out there. We’re gonna screen and pick through what we feel is important and worth it to talk about, that will make a positive impact for you.

Sean: I agree, I support that 100%. I don’t want to talk about negative things. I want to talk about positivity in our community, and to elevate access, to elevate our community and to be positive in general. I mean, yes, change is tough.

Wawa: Yes.

Sean: Change is challenging. But I believe that the two of us have always talked about, how can we contribute to this? How can we be positive influences of change?

Wawa: Dropping some gems. 

Sean: That’s really the goal, drop gems and positivity and be uplifting. Because you’ve always been that for me. I mean, we’ve been friends for over 15 years. We’ve always kept that positivity.

Wawa: We’ve been helping each other out for many years, you know, and sometimes… In general, Deaf music artists back then didn’t have any other people to talk about these things. Or to look up to for advice or anything like that. So we experience a lot of things. So what we gain our knowledge from, we share it. Yeah, and it’s fun to watch people who really take our advice and watch them grow. It’s like, wow, we had a small part of that. It’s nice. It’s paying it forward. 

Sean: And even the people who didn’t listen who said no, I want this, you do you. I respect that.

Wawa: Yeah.

Sean: Because I’m like that. People offer me advice all the time. Maybe you should do that, maybe you should do that. I’m like, why don’t you do it?

Wawa: Just build that dream. Don’t quit. That’s it.

Sean: Yeah. Thank you all for watching. Tune in next week, like, subscribe. We’re making this a thing and we’re really excited about it. I’m looking forward to chatting with you more and really getting down in there.

Wawa: Evil laughter, muahaha!

Sean: Thank you.

Wawa: Sho sum luv. 

[End credits:

Hosted & Produced by: Sean Forbes & Warren “Wawa” Snipe.

Edited by Noah Rangel.

Transcript by Jillian McBride.

Audio Clean Ups by Nick King, Chris Smith.

Captioned by Noah Rangel.

Outro video: Bold graphics swirl and pop, revealing text: DPAN.TV. THE SIGN LANGUAGE CHANNEL.]

[VD: In separate video screens, Sean Forbes appears on the left and Warren “Wawa” Snipe appears on the right. Sean wears dark rimmed glasses and a dark blue jacket over a black top. Behind him a poster reads: DEAF AND LOUD. Wawa wears clear-rimmed glasses, a backwards hat, and a black top with the ILY sign spelling out “Love”. Behind him a poster reads: DIP HOP: WAWA’S WORLD.]

Sean: Hello Warren.

Wawa: Hello Sean.

[Laughing]

Sean: Welcome to the first episode of our new podcast! What are we gonna call it?

Wawa: We still haven’t thought of a name!

Sean: I think we’ll call it Sean and Wawa?

Wawa: Anything’s possible, should we leave it to the people to decide?

Sean: True, true. So really, the goal with this podcast is every Monday. we’re gonna meet and chat about what’s up with us, with our community, like what’s hot right now?

Wawa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so but before we do that, we need to introduce ourselves.

Sean: Yeah!

Wawa: So can I start first?

Sean:  Yeah, the floor is yours. 

Wawa: What’s up beautiful people, it’s your boy Wawa. I’m a person who loves the entertainment world. I’m an actor, musician, rapper, you know, I do these things and I elevate. Well, we both elevate people with disabilities in the entertainment world. Yeah.

Sean: My name is Sean, I’m a rapper, musician, producer, lover of access. I’m the co-founder of DPAN, the Deaf Professional Arts Network. And since 2006, really my mission is to do

anything related with access. I just love access. I love seeing access. It always makes me excited when access is there and provided. Just like this podcast, you know? Obviously we’re talking and signing at the same time, but our goal is to make this accessible to as many audiences as possible.

Wawa: Exactly. Now you have to understand, accessibility still has room for improvement. So we’re still working on encouraging. It’s not just us, it’s many people involved with this, creating access for all. So one day, access will be everywhere.

Sean: I mean, really, since I’ve founded DPAN in 2006, I’ve seen major improvements with access. Because if you remember back in 2006, I mean, music wasn’t always accessible. There were just many things that were not really accessible. And now you’ve seen tremendous improvement. So I’m really excited about that.

Wawa: I wouldn’t be able to just walk in and it’s there. I mean, but you know, sometimes I ask

people the question, what does accessibility, total accessibility, what does it like to you? How does it feel? Are you satisfied with the accessibility that is happening today? What can we do to change it? What can we do to improve it? What do you think is missing? Innovation, technology, wow it’s just happening quickly. 

Sean: And I think one thing that our community and ourselves could learn is how to be compassionate with each other as it relates to access. Because I agree, like, I’m ready to flip out sometimes when access is not provided in the right way, or access is not provided at all. Especially when access is an afterthought. 

Wawa: Mmhmm.

Sean: There’s always room for improvement and to be the one to suggest, you know, maybe you could improve doing this. Obviously, you’re ready to go nuclear when access is not provided and people are not accommodating. That’s when it’s time to flip out. But when it’s provided and it’s there, and there’s always room for improvement, always.

Wawa: So one thing you need to understand is that we talk a lot about access, but sometimes there are some people out there who don’t really understand why you keep talking about it. So here’s a visual: There are 1.3 billion people in the world who have a disability, but only 16% have accessibility, and that’s very, very tiny. 1.3 billion people with disabilities have access, but it’s only 16% of the world.

Sean: And that’s in general, that’s not just the signing in the Deaf community. 

Wawa: Right, that’s in general. For signing, it’s a lot smaller. 

Sean: So you’re saying like braille for the blind community, having access to books, to media, to information is very limited as well. Having access to buildings for those who are in wheelchairs. So yeah, our community is a small part of this big–

Wawa: Absolutely, yeah. 

Sean: You know, the big picture. And obviously we’re very passionate about the signing, and captioning, and visual descriptions for those who are DeafBlind. Because disability is often, it’s not just one disability. There are many people who have several different disabilities. So there’s a lot to take into consideration.

Wawa: So again, what does total access look like to you? 

Sean: Yeah. 

Wawa: Yeah. It’s cool. But I gotta tell you something. Over the weekend, I was in California. 

Sean: Oh! I love visiting California. Was the weather great? 

Wawa: It was a little chilly.

Sean: Chilly?! [Laughing]

Wawa: It was weird, it was weird! It was weird. I mean, I’m like, wait, I have my t-shirts. I had my hoodie, but I had some t-shirts. I was like, my hoodie’s becoming my best friend in the state of California.

Sean: It’s funny because before, I’ve flown into LA with shorts and short sleeves for the day and I got off the airplane and I’m like whew, so cold! And I ended up buying a $60 hoodie in the airport. No, don’t do that. People, prepare. It’s easy to take off layers, but it’s not easy to add them if you don’t have them. So anyways.

Wawa: Yeah, so I was there for an expo, DeafNation Expo, and I’m hoping I pronounce this right: Pasadena?

Sean: PasaDEEna. 

Wawa: PasaDEE, E-E-N-A.

Sean: That’s where they host the Rose Bowl for NCAA football, yeah.

Wawa: Right, but it’s also the place where we were at, just walking distance away is the building where they have the auditions for America’s Got Talent.

Sean: Wow. Did you show up?! Did you audition?

Wawa: There was no one there. 

Sean: Darn. 

Wawa: But that building was there. I was like wow, it was nice. But the hotel was beautiful. That event for Expo was mind-blowing. 

Sean: It looked amazing. It was packed!

Wawa: Oh my gosh, it was so much fun. It was PACKED. I mean, it was packed. And it was really cool to see so many people coming out, giving support for the Deaf ecosystem. You know, mingling with old friends, new friends, sometimes first-time people coming in, learning, picking up signs and things. And several celebrities popped up. I’m talking about Deaf, Hard of Hearing, and Coda celebrities popped up.

Sean: Like who?

Wawa: Well, we had several people. I mean, yeah, Justin Loncar who’s Some Deaf Guy. 

Sean: Some Deaf Guy, yeah. 

Wawa: Awesome comedian. Then you had Vich, the Vich Family. 

Sean: The Vich Family, yeah. 

Wawa: And so they were there. And it was several more who popped up, they didn’t have booths or anything. 

Sean: I saw Shaheem was there.

Wawa: Yeah, Shaheem was there.

Sean: Cool!

Wawa: So he came with his family. Beautiful family, I have to say. Beautiful family.  So I had a good time just talking, meeting with other people. So to see that many people just coming in, coming out, staying, talking, meeting, and really expressing how glad they were to be there. I mean, it was a bunch of happy people. I did a performance there, a meet and greet, pictures, I was doing pictures and meeting and talking like all day. I was worn out, but to see the faces, the happy

people, that really inspired me. Yeah, so it was great. It was wonderful.

Sean: I love, the one thing I really love about DeafNation is it really brings a variety of people. Just so many different Deaf businesses, Deaf entertainers, just a variety that you would never see at any other expo or event. It’s really unique.

Wawa: Yeah, I think it’s cool because oftentimes in the Deaf community they’re kind of spread out. So they meet a little bit here and there, but for something for a big event, they just come out and they’re like, I haven’t seen you in a year!  And they live like, what? 15, 20 minutes apart from each other, something like that?

Sean: Right.

Wawa: And they finally see each other. So it’s busy, it’s lives, it’s business. So coming to an event, an expo like this it’s like, ahh. Like family time, you know what I mean?

Sean: Right, right.

Wawa: So it’s good. It’s worth it. But it was good. 

Sean: I’m sure people show up early, stay there all day, and try to get free stuff, right?

Wawa: I got one! [Laughing] I got one.

Sean: You got one person asking for free stuff?

Wawa: No, I got one free thing! 

Sean: Oh YOU got free stuff. 

Wawa: So I was like, oh yeah! So that was good. So I gave it to my queen. It was specifically for her anyway! But it was good. 

Sean: How many songs did you perform? 

Wawa: I did four songs.

Sean: Okay.

Wawa: One was the cover song, the rest were original. And then I was explaining about a festival that I’m planning to host next year in Washington, DC. But it was great. And wow. This is the last one for the summer and then they go back and start again in the fall. So you guys, check for DeafNation Expo, I highly encourage you to go.

Sean: You’ll be there?

Wawa: For the fall? I have one so far.

Sean: Cool. 

Wawa: We’ll see.

Sean: Awesome. Yeah. Really, I wanted to talk about the NFL Draft that I went to recently. 

Wawa: That’s right, you went!

Sean: They hosted it in Detroit. Bro. So cool. So cool. I never in a million years thought that I would be anxious to go to an NFL Draft experience. Before I went, I was looking at research, the history of it. Really back in the day, they used to host it all the time in New York City. It wasn’t a big event. The NFL, or college players who were going into the draft would go to the event. But this time, it was insane. It took over the whole downtown of Detroit, right in the heart of downtown Detroit. And, you know, leading up to the event, there were several Deaf people in the Detroit community who were pinging me, asking me, how can I go to the NFL Draft? How can I experience that? And for me, I was like uhh, I don’t know. “But you have NFL contacts?” But I’m like…

Wawa: I heard it was a record. 

Sean: Just because I went to the Super Bowl doesn’t mean I personally have NFL contacts! Yes, yes, it was a record. So each day, I believe it was about 250, 275,000 people that were there.

Wawa: Okay, so hold on, let’s go back. For some people who don’t follow the NFL, so the draft is like, how many days?

Sean: Three days.

Wawa: Three days.

Sean: Three days, so the first round was Thursday night.

Wawa: Right.

Sean: And then the second round was on Friday night. And the third round on Saturday. Right. But it seems to me like it still continues after. Like the fourth round, fifth round. But the big rounds are in the beginning. 

Wawa: The beginning, yeah.

Sean: And then after that, you know, they’re still picking. But really it was crazy because I really

wanted to go, but I wasn’t sure if access was provided. I tried to do some research. It said access is provided, but what does that mean? You know, as a Deaf person, I’m questioning that, I always have that. Like, I don’t want to waste my time showing up, getting into it with people, seeing where it is, how it’s provided. So what happened was on Thursday night, I was considering going at the last minute and they said, do not come to Detroit. It’s full. You won’t be able to get in. So that was my answer on Thursday night. So it so happened that several Deaf people were there and I was on social media. My whole social media was overtaken with the NFL Draft.

Wawa: It took over!

Sean: Right, I mean just, Detroit was crazy. And I saw one friend of mine post a video saying, “I’m here at the NFL Draft!” And he was showing the event, and I saw a group of Deaf people there, and I saw the interpreter. So I was like, I know that interpreter, she’s a good friend of mine. So the next morning I texted her, I said what’s up with the access at the NFL? She said it was very last minute and asked me if I was interested in going. I’m like, yes! So I texted my boss (my wife), and I asked her, can I go to the draft tonight? “Yeah, go!” So I went with a small group of friends and it was amazing to be able to just stand there and see the fans of each team.

Wawa: Oh, insane.

Sean: It was insane! I mean, some of these fans were dressed to the nines. Really. It was over the top in a lot of ways.

Wawa: Hardcore fans. 

Sean: Oh yeah. And then behind us, we were in the VIP area. The interpreter was standing right there. So the interpreter would be like, hey everyone, hey! Right now there’s a trade happening between this team and that team. And for me, if I was at home watching it on TV, it would have been delayed. I probably wouldn’t have caught certain things that I would have caught during a live, you know, NFL Draft experience. So, yeah, the interesting thing is after it was done, they asked me, what do you think? Do you think the Deaf community would want to go to future NFL Draft experiences? I’m like, yes!

Wawa: I would. 

Sean: If they knew that the draft provided access and there was a way to sign up for it or something, because the experience itself was free.

Wawa: Okay.

Sean: I didn’t have to pay to get in, but I suspect that the teams who were there, not the teams, but the fans of those specific teams, paid to go in the VIP area. So next year is Green Bay. Deaf community, if you guys are interested in going to the NFL Draft, we’ve got to figure out how to do that. How to really experience that.

Wawa: Interesting.

Sean: This really shows that the Deaf community is really invested in the NFL. 

Wawa: Oh yeah. 

Sean: They really want to go to the game, they want to be a part of it. Not just the last game of the year, the Super Bowl, but really the whole season. Deaf people want to go to the games. They want to experience it like a hearing person experiences it. So for me, going as just an attendee and to see access like that. No captions, but just to be able to chat with friends, to see other Deaf people who are fans. There was a big group of Deaf people who were Philadelphia Eagles fans.

Wawa: Let’s go!

Sean: That’s your team. So of course I’m thinking, Wawa, Philadelphia Eagles.

Wawa: Hardcore!

Sean: And like when their draft came up, they went to sit with their Philadelphia Eagles compadres and they were on TV. They were cheering and rooting for the Eagles, so it’s fun. I tried to go up when the Detroit Lions were picked, but as you can imagine it was packed in that area. I mean, you could see people were packed in, shoulder to shoulder. So I tried to get in there with another friend, the other friend was like, come on come on, let’s go, let’s go! So we went and the security guard was like, you can’t enter. We were like ohh, we’re Deaf, we tried to pull the Deaf card. He’s like no. No, can’t get in. So my friend was like, let’s go another way. So we tried to go around. And right as we went around, Barry Sanders and the mayor of Detroit walked out. So it was like, it’s Barry Sanders right there in the flesh. I’m like, woo! Then that security guard showed up. “I told you guys to go back! You can’t go in this area.” So we had no choice, we walked back to our seats, we didn’t want any drama. 

Wawa: Sounds like he followed you. 

Sean: Yeah, yeah, he followed us. Like, I see them, they’re trying to get in.

[Laughter]

Wawa: What a rich experience. 

Sean: It was a really great experience.

Wawa: So did you say how many people attended?

Sean: I think altogether the whole weekend it was about 700,000 people who attended. And it beat the record. The previous record was Nashville with 600,000 attendees. So it’s really exciting.

Wawa: Think it will increase every NFL draft?

Sean: It’ll be interesting because Green Bay is a much smaller town. It’s a much smaller town than Detroit. So we’ll see. We’ll see next year what that brings, how they host it, what it looks like. But it was a really cool experience for Detroit. And I’m excited for what’s to come because now they’re talking about the possibility of hosting the NBA All-Star Game here in Detroit, and hosting many different events here in Detroit. So I’ve been talking with several interpreters about how can we amplify efforts to really make sure the Deaf community knows about access being provided? Because I started to realize that the interpreters in a lot of ways hold the key.

Wawa: True, they do help a lot.

Sean: They hold the key. It’s interesting because that specific experience, like the Deaf community’s asking me, and I’m trying to ask people I know, like, do you know anything about access for the NFL Draft? “No, maybe you should contact this person.” I’ll contact this person. “No, I don’t know much.” I’m like, okay, we seem to have a problem here. How do we resolve letting the Deaf community know about access? I feel like it’s a repetitive topic.

Wawa: No it’s okay, it’s good to know and sometimes people don’t get it the first time. Maybe the second, third, fourth time, even if it’s the same message. Finally it pops in, now I get it, okay, fine. But that’s really good, I appreciate it. But also, for something at that magnitude, we need to be there early, to make sure to be on time, you know? But it’s nice that you had interpreters

that was there, so that’s really great.

Sean: Both of the interpreters were great. I mean, I would not have…interpreters can make or break the experience.

Wawa: That’s true!

Sean: You know, if you show up and you’re not familiar with the NFL language, if you’re not familiar with how to sign what the team’s sign names are. So that brings me to our next topic, interpreter appreciation. So last week was National Interpreter Appreciation Day. Of course that means interpreters in general, you know, there are many interpreters for many different language.

Wawa: True.

Sean: You know, especially in hospitals and stuff like that. But for us, of course we cherish our

Deaf and hearing sign language interpreters.  So I made a quick video. and everybody who shared that video, I really appreciate you guys. Because interpreters are a big part of the bridge between the Deaf and the hearing world. So my appreciation is tremendous.

Wawa: Yeah.

Sean: So I’m curious to ask you if you have any interpreter appreciation stories you want to share.

Wawa: Well, I have a couple. I think when I first picked up learning to sign in college– Sorry if I’m doing this, this coffee, I’m like [coughing]! Anyways.

[Sean laughing]

Wawa: So, but I think the first time, when I was learning to sign. And I arrived to college, I was taking classes and I remember seeing a teacher and I also remember seeing one person come out. The teacher was signing and I was learning, and then this person was voicing and I’m like, are you a translator? “No, I’m an interpreter.” What’s that? I didn’t know what it was. So it goes back and forth and I saw it, I was able to fully understand. Wow, okay, okay.

Sean: And how old are you at this point?

Wawa: I was 17 when that happened. 

Sean: 17. So you didn’t really learn sign language until you were 17?

Wawa: Yeah. Right.

Sean: Wow. 

Wawa: So that was, I was like, wow. But appreciation? Wow I have so many. I have so many, I think one was when…how do I say this? It was a really terrible situation, but that person happened to be there. And I wasn’t involved, but I just happened to be there. And I remember the Deaf person, it was a car accident that happened. And I saw that the person was Deaf because I witnessed it. But somehow people were getting mad at the person who was Deaf in the car, thinking it was her fault. Really it was the other person’s fault. So she couldn’t communicate, she was trying to figure out what was going on and people were just blasting her out. So a guy just came running and said hold on, she’s Deaf. Let me try to interpret and help us all understand. I mean, he didn’t have to. He just came running like a superhero arriving to protect her and interpret for her and they were able to solve the issue. So seeing that, that shows someone cares and really made the effort. To take it on and be like, I’m an interpreter, I’m here to help you out. That was good, I mean I was like wow about that. But my most funniest one was when I was in Aspen, Colorado. I was a recruiter for the college that I graduated from. I was a recruiter, and I remember my first time in Aspen, very nice, very fancy. Like wow, my first time was watching rugby. So I’d never seen it, that was my first time. And I remember cringing at the fact that people were getting their faces stepped on, bodies thrown around without the helmets. I said, this is football? This is not football. Went into a McDonald’s, I remember the long line. And so it was my turn, and the woman was speaking so fast. So fast that I had to ask her several times to repeat what she was saying.

Sean: Like this.

Wawa: Yeah, and so she was starting, yeah, I mean really fast. So she started getting frustrated.

[Laughing]

Wawa: She started getting frustrated. I was like, okay, so get me a pen and paper and I will write it down. I’m using my voice and I’m signing, but all of a sudden, boom, someone comes up saying they’ll interpret for me. I’m like oh, of all places?

Sean: Just popped up out of nowhere?

Wawa: Just popped up! It was almost like you had that…

Sean: Why can’t we have that teleportation like…

Wawa: Help button? [Laughing]

Sean: The interpreter bat signal projecting!

Wawa: Project it, that! 

Sean: And they just pop in! 

Wawa: So, I mean, yeah it was like, my distress was REAL. Struggling through and boom, I’ll interpret for you. Whoa! So that girl, the lady who worked there she was like, why can’t he understand me? The interpreter’s like, he’s Deaf. “Oh, I’m so sorry.” I said don’t be sorry, I”m happy that I’m Deaf. But thank you for the interpreting. And then she connected me to the community there. I was like, wow. I didn’t know anyone in Aspen, she connected me to them. It was nice, man. So that was nice.

Sean: That! It’s always beautiful when interpreters really have the heart for their profession. 

Wawa: Mmhmm.

Sean: They’re really invested. Because as an interpreter, there’s so many situations I can think of where I just appreciate interpreters so much because they can make or break the experience. They can make or break the job interview. They can make or break your doctor’s appointment, like how severe is the situation? So, you know, my heart really goes out to those interpreters who really make the effort. And it’s not just a job.

Wawa: It’s not. It’s really not.

Sean: You’re really developing relationships between people who may not know sign language. I have to say that, you know, personally, my number one favorite person that’s really helped me tremendously and really opened a lot of doors for me is Amber Galloway. In my entire profession, I’ve had many amazing interpreters, and you all know who you are.

Wawa: For sure.

Sean: And I value and appreciate many of you so much. But for Amber, she’s a special one, especially because of the music portion of it. As a person that’s largely invested in music, who is

passionate about music, music access, and being in the music world.

Wawa: ASL Music Camp. 

Sean: ASL Music Camp and developing more opportunities for Deaf and Hard of Hearing people to get involved with music. I mean, as someone who started in 2006, trying to find a way to break through, to provide the access for our community and to try to find, you know, like-minded people who feel the same. Because I’ve seen it all. I’ve seen people who sign music for their own purposes and intents, rather than providing access to the community. They’re like, look at me, I’m hot. I can do this. Or the interpreters who provide access and clearly you can tell that they’re not fans of that music. So Amber is someone that I feel always tries to match the music with the Deaf interpreter or the interpreter, to try to match to provide the experience. Because I’ve been to several festivals where she works at and I’m always mind-blown by the experience itself and to see the person on that platform.

Wawa: It’s amazing.

Sean: Signing, looking who’s feeding them, how they’re getting that experience. Really a tremendous effort goes into providing this access. And it’s not just music.

Wawa: It’s not easy.

Sean: Prep. The prep work to provide access.

Wawa: It’s insane. 

Sean: Because like recently I was talking about the NFL Draft. Like you need to know like who the teams are, what their mascot is, you know, where they’re based. I mean, it’s like Green Bay. Where is Green Bay? It’s in Wisconsin. I mean, I know that, but generally, you know, some Deaf people might wonder, where’s Green Bay located? So as an interpreter, you need to do as much homework as possible. So when you’re providing access for any performer, you really have to do your homework. 

Wawa: They do a lot of research. They do a lot. So they provide it, they care, they’re in there. So speaking of Amber, she puts her soul in her work.

Sean: She really does.

Wawa: She cares. That’s why I love her. She’s also the person who helped us in the Super Bowl, you know.

Sean: Yes. I mean, talk about that. Because to me, when I got the call to go to the Super Bowl, I mean, I admit my first thought was, oh my gosh like, this is huge. The whole community is going to be watching me.

[Wawa laughs]

Sean: I admit that I haven’t really signed other people’s songs. I mean, I do it in the car all the time. I’ll sign to myself, but on a platform like that? I mean, number one, it’s an honor to be asked to go to the Super Bowl to stand up and to represent our community. But at the same time, whew, the work starts now to prep for it.

Wawa: We prepped for a month. 

Sean: We prepped for a month. I remember when we got the call I was like okay wow, the work starts now. I remember I put together a video, the DPAN team captioned it and made sure it was perfect. I picked all of the best verses and I feel I was 90% right. There were some surprises that happened.

Wawa: We worked it, because we didn’t know which songs they were planning to put out. 

Sean: Right.

Wawa: The artists didn’t put out anything. So I remember Amber and you said, just get the top 10 songs the artists do and just practice them all. And we met, we met like twice a week, the whole time for like two hours, just practicing, yeah. 

Sean: Yeah! It was fun. 

Wawa: So by the time we got there, we were listening to the music like oh, we know this, we know this, oh we don’t know this, you take this, fine, you take this, fine. Perfect. It was fun. 

Sean: It’s like, I remember being in the car on the way to the Super Bowl. We would always play music and sign. I remember we were signing Tupac, we were signing everything that was West

Coast gangster rap because we knew that the whole event was about that.

Wawa: So Amber was a very, very exceptional person who really made this access happen. Because when we were there at the Super Bowl, everything was so top secret. They wasn’t giving out anything, so you couldn’t. So we would ask for music, stuff like that and we struggled with that. There were a few things newly written just for the Super Bowl. 

Sean: Right.

Wawa: We didn’t know that. Amber was like, I got you. Spoke to other people’s camp, the artist’s camp. I mean, we just got it and started practicing.

Sean: She was key for that because we arrived at the Super Bowl and we didn’t know what the setlist was. We watched the first performance and marked it down. I remember it was like okay, they’re playing that song. And then 50 Cent showed up as a surprise.

Wawa: Yeah he was the guest star, right. 

Sean: I was like ohh! In Da Club.

♪ Go, go, go, go ♪

♪ Go shorty, it’s your birthday ♪

[Laughing]

Wawa: So Kendrick Lamar. 

Sean: The first day, yeah, Kendrick Lamar. That was tough.

Wawa: He wrote one verse that was specifically for the Super Bowl. So we didn’t know. We were like oh, so we asked. 

Sean: And I think all of us, Amber herself had a hard time because she was rapping at supersonic speed. He was SO FAST. 

Wawa: Yeah!

Sean: So it was like we had no idea what he’s saying.

Wawa: Like another language. 

Sean: Luckily Amber, with her experience working at many different festivals, working with many different teams, she actually spotted somebody from Kendrick Lamar’s camp and went up to them. And the other person was like, what are you doing here? And she was like, I’m here with the deaf rappers. They’re like yeah I heard about that! Did you get our lyrics and everything? And Amber responded, no. 

[Laughing]

Sean: So she got everything instantly. Without her involvement, without her being there, I don’t think that we would have had as much support as we could have had without her. So her…

Wawa: Right, it was amazing. 

Sean: You know how I feel about her. 

Wawa: So that’s why, you know, we love this woman. She goes– As I said before, she puts her soul into it. Her soul is really into it. So there are a lot of other interpreters that do that same thing. And just providing because they care. They know, they understand. So I’m really grateful, you know, not just nationally but for the world. Other interpreters from other countries, whoo! 

Sean: Oh yeah!

Wawa: Wow. 

Sean: Talk about our ladies from Barbados.

Wawa: Our queens from the Barbados! Nikki Champagne! Nikki Harris and Tracy Tyler. Tracy’s from Scotland.

Sean: Yep, right.

Wawa: Scotland, while Nikki’s from the UK. So I remember–

Sean: And they both sign BSL.

Wawa: BSL. 

Sean: They were our interpreters too. 

Wawa: Yeah!!

Sean: In addition to Bonnie. 

Wawa: Bonnie from Barbados. So she signed ASL.

Sean: From Barbados and signs ASL. 

Wawa: Yeah. 

Sean: But she wasn’t with us all the time, so sometimes we had BSL interpreters.

Wawa: But they made sure we were able to lip read to understand them while we saw BSL. So we were picking up on BSL the whole time too!

Sean: Right.

Wawa: So they…you see them put themselves at work. I mean, here you go, ASL and BSL. And they’re interpreters, they were like, okay, we have to figure out how we make sure there’s access for everybody. And they did. They were incredible. And they were a lot of fun to party with bro.

[Sean laughs]

Wawa: Oh I enjoyed talking with them. 

Sean: You had a great time with them. But that really shows you, because they were there to see, you know, we as a group were there to see how we can help improve the Deaf community in Barbados. Improve access, improve experiences for the community, and to share knowledge with the community. And it was really fascinating because interpreters themselves are really something. I mean, Bonnie herself, I think she’s one of, if not two interpreters…

Wawa: Two certified interpreters in the whole country.

Sean: Two on the whole island of Barbados. Two. So I remember Bonnie saying, sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night, a Deaf Barbadian has been arrested, he’s in jail, or a Deaf person’s in the hospital and needs access.

Wawa: Doctors appointments, I mean yeah, she was doing that when we were there. We were there and sometimes she’d be like, I’ve got to step out. I have to help this person. I mean, but everyone knew who she was. The whole country knew who she was, and it’s nice because she got the president, or the prime minister?

Sean: I saw that.

Wawa: She got an award directly.

Sean: Good for her. Much deserved.

Wawa: And it was like the whole country was celebrating her. Yeah. And so she was representing her country. Then you have Nikki and Tracy just representing the UK with the other groups. So we had the US, UK, and Barbados getting together to help the community to stick together.

Sean: It was beautiful.

Wawa: Oh it was beautiful. So… What would it be like? What would it look like without these interpreters, you know? I think it would be really tough.

Sean: When we first went there, because we went to Barbados twice. First time for research, to meet people, to see and visualize the whole project. Interpreters were crucial. Crucial in so many different ways because, like, I remember meeting the steelpan band. 

Wawa: Yeah, from BCC?

Sean: It was really hard because Barbadians, even though they speak English, they have a strong accent. You know, they have a strong accent. So you look at the BSL interpreter, you look at Bonnie, you know, it’s like you had multiple forms of access. To see the body language, to see how to best learn from what was going on and to develop the song, to develop the idea of how we can make music to uplift and elevate the Barbados community. And it was crucial with the interpreters.

Wawa:  I love the fact of how willing everyone was. They were really helping each other out. If there was a misunderstanding or not sure if they understood, people just went out of their way. The interpreters were there to explain and expand it. The hearing people from BCC, Barbados Community College. The music, the music people were just like gesturing everything. So it was like the partnership was there. We all became a family. We were there for a short time, but we became really tight. So that was the first time. The second time, it was like coming back home. Yeah let’s go, let’s go! We worked hard, so, we miss Barbados.

Sean: We miss Barbados.

Wawa: Our interpreters who helped out. 

Sean: Ruth, Tracy, Nikki. 

Wawa: Stephen. 

Sean: All of them. All of them. 

Wawa: It was a great team. 

Sean: Without the interpreters, the experience would have been totally different for sure.

Wawa: I believe so. So thank you to all of the interpreters, you know who you are, around the world. We can’t do this without you. We’re grateful.

Sean: I agree 100%. I’m curious, you mentioned Kendrick Lamar recently. Have you been following the beef between him and Drake?

Wawa: Honestly, with other people who I’ve collaborated with, songs with, my team, great team.

Sean: Yeah.

Wawa: So they’ve been posting and going back and forth and I’m like uh…so I think I’m lost, I’m drowning.

Sean: Me too!

Wawa: But this beef is insane! It’s insane. At first I was like, why are we having this beef? Then I was like oh, okay. But sometimes beefs are created just for a publicity stunt. 

Sean: Bingo. So who do you think is dropping a new record? 

Wawa: Oh my gosh. 

Sean: Do you think it’s Kendrick or is Drake dropping another one? I think it’s both of them!

Wawa: I think both of them are. It’s just to get that quick attention from the back and forth. Then when they drop it, there you go. Smart move, but sometimes it can be dangerous for some people. Because if you remember the old times, you used to have the East Coast and West Coast War doing a rap battle.

Sean: Right. 

Wawa: That was tense, I remember, so. 

Sean: It’s interesting because you’re mentioning Tupac and Biggie.

Wawa: Yeah.

Sean: And I’ve followed it ever since, I’ve always been a big fan of rap, big fan of Biggie, big fan of Tupac.

Wawa: Same.

Sean: They were actually friends.

Wawa: Yes, they were.

Sean: They were friends, and then the whole rivalry was created.

Wawa: It got wild. 

Sean: It’s something in rap that has always been around. And it’s competitive. And I admit that I haven’t really been following. I see the news. I see some of the same people you’re talking about posting things like ohh, he just responded six minutes later. To me, I’m like, I find it very far-fetched that someone can make a rap beat and then respond instantly six minutes later.

Wawa: That’s fast.

Sean: Like that. Some things I think were a little…

Wawa: Planned?

Sean: Too personal for two grown men to be beefing about, especially family. I think families should be thrown out, you should never discuss other people’s families. The rap beef should be strictly between the two of them. 

Wawa: The two of them, that’s it. But I find myself thinking, do we really have time for this? 

[Sean laughs]

Wawa: You know me, I’m positive. I like to just go on. If I have something against you, that’s between you and I, but I don’t have to follow up or try to get revenge. I’m not a revengeful person. I don’t do that. I just, I have things to do. I have a life. You have your life, keep going. But at the same time, when you see this, you see how fast they responded going back and forth. It makes me think, you must have planned this.

Sean: I agree.

Wawa: But okay. But people out there, some people…

Sean: Yeah they enjoy it.

Wawa: They just love it. You know, the drama, the ooh, the ahh, the sounds, whoa, the creativity, the wordplay, wow.

Sean: That’s the thing, I tried to hop on and see what the issue was. I tried to experience the song. Really, honestly, Wawa, I wish somebody could sign for Drake… 

Wawa: Same here.

Sean: And somebody could sign for Kendrick. I think if somebody could provide that access, I think it would be fascinating.

Wawa: Ooh, it would be. It would be. 

Sean: Yeah, it’s definitely a challenge because I mean, they’re rapping hard too and they’re doing a lot of interesting wordplay too. But I tried to follow it. I tried to pull up the lyrics, pull up the music and I just get lost instantly.

Wawa: Yeah, I got lost. But I think that’s another story for another time because I’m curious what everyone thinks about that kind of thing. But for this…

Sean: Maybe they would like to see two Deaf rappers have beef?

Wawa: Yeah, that’d be something to talk about. 

Sean: Yeah, just not me and you.

Wawa: Nope. I have no time for that.

Sean: I love you too much to ever do that. And I can’t think of any Deaf rapper I would want to have beef with, because I would rather elevate our Deaf music community.

Wawa: We have no time for that craziness.

Sean: Than to create separation.

Wawa: Right, we have no time for that craziness. I mean, we should be going up, not down. We should be going forward, not backwards. But you know, I’m curious with you out there. Something you want to talk about, you have a question for us, drop it in the comments. Just let us know, we can come up with something. But we would love to hear from you and what topics you want us to talk about. Now mind you, we’re not gonna follow every topic that you put out there. We’re gonna screen and pick through what we feel is important and worth it to talk about, that will make a positive impact for you.

Sean: I agree, I support that 100%. I don’t want to talk about negative things. I want to talk about positivity in our community, and to elevate access, to elevate our community and to be positive in general. I mean, yes, change is tough.

Wawa: Yes.

Sean: Change is challenging. But I believe that the two of us have always talked about, how can we contribute to this? How can we be positive influences of change?

Wawa: Dropping some gems. 

Sean: That’s really the goal, drop gems and positivity and be uplifting. Because you’ve always been that for me. I mean, we’ve been friends for over 15 years. We’ve always kept that positivity.

Wawa: We’ve been helping each other out for many years, you know, and sometimes… In general, Deaf music artists back then didn’t have any other people to talk about these things. Or to look up to for advice or anything like that. So we experience a lot of things. So what we gain our knowledge from, we share it. Yeah, and it’s fun to watch people who really take our advice and watch them grow. It’s like, wow, we had a small part of that. It’s nice. It’s paying it forward. 

Sean: And even the people who didn’t listen who said no, I want this, you do you. I respect that.

Wawa: Yeah.

Sean: Because I’m like that. People offer me advice all the time. Maybe you should do that, maybe you should do that. I’m like, why don’t you do it?

Wawa: Just build that dream. Don’t quit. That’s it.

Sean: Yeah. Thank you all for watching. Tune in next week, like, subscribe. We’re making this a thing and we’re really excited about it. I’m looking forward to chatting with you more and really getting down in there.

Wawa: Evil laughter, muahaha!

Sean: Thank you.

Wawa: Sho sum luv. 

[End credits:

Hosted & Produced by: Sean Forbes & Warren “Wawa” Snipe.

Edited by Noah Rangel.

Transcript by Jillian McBride.

Audio Clean Ups by Nick King, Chris Smith.

Captioned by Noah Rangel.

Outro video: Bold graphics swirl and pop, revealing text: DPAN.TV. THE SIGN LANGUAGE CHANNEL.]